Curse

dont feel no pain · Oct 25, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

there are quite a few skills that work around arrmor like say
"Watch Yourself" this adds +20 armor for 5-11 secs and costs only 4 adrenaline

now if u are a warrior u could keep this going for a whole fight non-stop but is it worth it the +20 armor and does it reduce dmg well?

someone help plz i'm sure there are some mathematical psychos here that have worked out armor or am i a idiot and everyones knows byt me?

JYX · Oct 25, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Oh yeah. If you can actually get it on your monk, kudos to you, you may well have saved him a LOT of energy healing himself. Problem is...you need to be pretty much hugging him to get the effect on. Its just hard to co-ordinate...but yeah...good skill, about a 30% damage reduction

tuperwho · Oct 25, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Check out this link: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php
The armor stuff is about 2/3 of the way down the page.

Or, if you're lazy, the short summary is that an increase of 40 armor reduces damage by half. So yeah, armor increases are worth it. If you want to test it out, equip the skill in question, go out of a town (alone) where you know you can survive a number of hits and where you can get just 1 or 2 melee char's to attack you. Let them hit you for a few, and see the damage. Then use the skill and notice the difference.

Entropius · Oct 25, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

+20 armor reduces damage to 70.7% (by a factor of the square root of two, since 40 armor is a factor of two and it's a logarithmic scale).

tuperwho · Oct 25, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

^ ^ precisely

pagansaint · Oct 25, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

The fun is when you are a monk and use Dolyk Signet and Watch yourself

Damage reduced well below half damage and no knockdowns.

Mercury Angel · Oct 25, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Armor is good for reducing damage to an extent. However, one can not forget that there're numerous methods of dealing damage that ignore armor.

Shadow damage, Chaos damage, Holy damage, Obsidian Flame/Crystal Wave, life stealing, degeneration, and, "Additional/Extra damage"

If an attack says it will deal +X additional/extra damage, then it will hurt base damage modified by armor THEN +X damage. So, assuming you had an infinitely large armor amount that reduced all damage to 1, and someone hit you with a +34 damage Executioner's Strike; You would be hit for 34-35 (Unsure whether the 1 would end up applying or not, as it'd really be less than 1).

This is why late in the game, when your normal attacks are dealing less than 10 per strike on some monsters, the attack skills are still fairly powerful, and why Air still sucks even with 25% armor penetration (On the monsters with very high AL). Well, at least I despise the Mursaat bosses that only suffer 37 damage from my Lightning Orb, at 16 Air combined with Glyph of Elemental Power for an extra 2 attribute ranks.

To test it simply, all you need is an elementalist with Armor of Earth, Kinetic Armor, and Glyph of Elemental Power, then aggro monsters that use weapon skills.

Edit; In answer as to whether it is a good damage reducer or not. It's fine, but I've seen multiple Warrior builds that focused on AL increasing and neglected such things as Healing or 75% block/evade stances, as tanks. More AL is good, but don't over-do it to the extent that you've given up on other effective damage reduction skills for diminishing returns.

Jetdoc · Oct 25, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

As a rule of thumb, 40 additional armor reduces your damage by 50% (just look at Frenzy and Healing Signet). So, as said above, the benefit of 20 armor winds up being about a 30% or so damage reduction.

NatalieD · Oct 25, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Problem is...you need to be pretty much hugging him to get the effect on.

Watch Yourself has a pretty decent radius. I've been told it's the same size as a ward, and that seems to be about right.

This might be a fairly recent change; I'm not sure what it used to be like.

twicky_kid · Oct 25, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Watch Yourself has a pretty decent radius. I've been told it's the same size as a ward, and that seems to be about right.

This might be a fairly recent change; I'm not sure what it used to be like.

all shouts are the size of your arrgo circle unless it says adjacent. watch yourself is very good and has decent range.

don't understand the math of +20 = 30% reduction. we know that +40 armor = 50% reduction. if 20 is half of 40 then +20 would be 25% reduction.

Zyuu · Oct 25, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

its because its not linear... someone mentioned earlier it was logarithmic I think

think of it like the function f(x)=e^x... 6=3*2 but 2*f(3) does not equal f(6)

while if f(x)=x or f(x)=ax where a is a constant then 6=3*2 and 2*f(3) = f(6)

Z

smurfhunter · Oct 26, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

i have a question tho... if damage "ignores armor" like shadow strike, you would do the full damage even if your target had dolyak signet/watchyourself on him, correct?

now what if you used weaken armor on them. this would reduce the armor of your target by.. i forget how much, and all of your normal attacks would do __% more damage. the question is, would shadow strike do more damage then? or is it still the same since it "ignores" all armor. a little off topic but kinda confusing to me

oh and im waaay too lazy to try this out in pve, and besides my only pve characters with weaken armor... are... none? dont even think about asking me to go unlock that for a pve character... *shudder*

Dancing Blade · Oct 26, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

all shouts are the size of your arrgo circle unless it says adjacent. watch yourself is very good and has decent range.

don't understand the math of +20 = 30% reduction. we know that +40 armor = 50% reduction. if 20 is half of 40 then +20 would be 25% reduction.

Think about it, that would mean +80 armor = 100 % damage reduction (that would be nice, though

). Like several ppl already stated, its not a linear reduction of damage as armor increases.

Phades · Oct 26, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

i have a question tho... if damage "ignores armor" like shadow strike, you would do the full damage even if your target had dolyak signet/watchyourself on him, correct?

now what if you used weaken armor on them. this would reduce the armor of your target by.. i forget how much, and all of your normal attacks would do __% more damage. the question is, would shadow strike do more damage then? or is it still the same since it "ignores" all armor. a little off topic but kinda confusing to me

oh and im waaay too lazy to try this out in pve, and besides my only pve characters with weaken armor... are... none? dont even think about asking me to go unlock that for a pve character... *shudder*

Weaken armor is for physical damage. Physical damage does not ignore armor. Things like frenzy that say takes double damage, apply to things that ignore armor, but thats about it.

twicky_kid · Oct 26, 2005, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Weaken armor is for physical damage. Physical damage does not ignore armor. Things like frenzy that say takes double damage, apply to things that ignore armor, but thats about it.

correct

weaken armor does give your physical attacks 30% increase. love bashing heads in with a hammer on vs weaken armor. 90-100 dmg hits with regular attacks is fun.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 26, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Weaken armor in essence causes your attacks to 'auto-crit' according to a description I read earlier in the site.

What I mean is that regular crits are supposed to be max dmg +~25%. [very approximate]. So with Weaken, if you crit, you're doing ~150% dmg. Can you imagine a 300+ point Eviscerate? [including deep wound]

Krazax · Oct 26, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

now if u are a warrior u could keep this going for a whole fight non-stop but is it worth it the +20 armor and does it reduce dmg well?

Yeah, you can keep it going the whole time. Is it worth it? Well that depends on a lot of factors. All in all it's not a bad skill to have in PvE to help the rest of the party out. I suggest you use it as a party boost tho and not depend on it as a tanking skill. Prolly a more usefull skill for hammer warriors I'd imagine tho, since this makes up for the loss of their shield.

smurfhunter · Oct 26, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Weaken armor is for physical damage. Physical damage does not ignore armor. Things like frenzy that say takes double damage, apply to things that ignore armor, but thats about it.

o

what if you used greater conflag+winter? would that basically nullfiy its effect?

NatalieD · Oct 26, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

o

what if you used greater conflag+winter? would that basically nullfiy its effect?

Greater Conflagration alone would make Weaken Armor useless. Winter wouldn't change anything as far as Weaken Armor is concerned.

Phades · Oct 27, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

o

what if you used greater conflag+winter? would that basically nullfiy its effect?

The same way it nullifies other methods that change physical to elemental, holy, or whatever type of damage.